tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7826531715948368686.post4932671981028145933..comments2023-08-11T04:36:22.219-07:00Comments on Harper's Bizarre: "Land" ownershipHarper Beresfordhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02562670355468136691noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7826531715948368686.post-45130825949483928412008-04-29T13:45:00.000-07:002008-04-29T13:45:00.000-07:00I have heard this position a fair number of times ...I have heard this position a fair number of times and I'm afraid to say I am never terribly convinced - first of all, it is clearly the case that LL provide a lot more than your average web host, and are not replaceable at this moment in time. If Dreamhost start to mess about with my account I can download everything, sign up with someone else and upload it; such things are a bit of a pain but not insurmountable. All of these hosts work with common platforms after all, that is part of their selling point. LL offers a lot more including ongoing development and a unique platform; one simply cannot get this anywhere else.<BR/><BR/>The second part is that once a service starts to involve other people and their society as part of its existence, it _does_ develop an ethical dimension. For instance, moderating even a simple discussion board involves one in all sorts of ethical dilemmas as to what should be allowed, what should involve restrictions, what is offensive, how far privacy should go and so on. And these aren't just issues of people trying to use moral philosophy to gain advantage; they really _are_ perfectly valid issues, moderators and users agree on this unless a bit sociopathic, real people are involved here. The situation of an immersive virtual world with no real alternative can only be more extreme.<BR/><BR/>SL "land" may not be "land" as RL law understands it (I would certainly say that it wasn't) but decisions relating to it, as well as other issues, have an ethical dimension - and Lindens themselves do recognise this, or at least most do.Ordinal Malaprophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11107567175251484485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7826531715948368686.post-82943350639479954842008-04-29T03:47:00.000-07:002008-04-29T03:47:00.000-07:00Ooh, fun discussion. I do think that residents ha...Ooh, fun discussion. I do think that residents have some inalienable rights, just because residents are people and people have inalienable rights. But I'm not at all convinced that those rights include (how would ya even phrase it?) the right to a stable and artificially inflated cost of land. <BR/><BR/>Such a putative right doesn't seem to relate in any convincing way to any of the traditional right (even alienable ones); life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness. It's hard for me to see the outcry as anything other than that of investors sorry to see the value of their investment go down. But investment is always a risk; actions that lower the value of an investment are not per se (or even eo ipso) a violation of some right.<BR/><BR/>Did LL make a *mistake* by lowering the price of land? That's entirely possible; I haven't analyzed their business model or their complex relationships with the various stakeholders enough to be able to say. At first glance it seems perfectly natural; the market is maturing, the part of the cost that consists of IT resources is becoming cheaper, competitors are appearing, so of course prices fall. But that's just a first-order take, and could be deeply wrong.<BR/><BR/>A rights violation, though, I'm pretty sure it isn't... :)Dale Innishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02771522211082181738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7826531715948368686.post-74396975345367582852008-04-28T17:23:00.000-07:002008-04-28T17:23:00.000-07:00Danton, your post is much appreciated. I hear what...Danton, your post is much appreciated. I hear what you say; however, I disagree with you. Linden Labs, as a private enterprise, has responsibility to its self-survival first. It will really suck when they fold and your land will not only be devalued but worth nothing as the PC servers they have used are sold off to geeks who will plumb them for extra fans.<BR/><BR/>A belief in avatar rights is a nice belief, but one based on a belief in a God that grants those and a self-representative government. Linden Labs isn't God (thank God--I don't think I could bear lag in my real life); we are self-representative through our engagement with this provider through direct economic pressure.<BR/><BR/>In other words, if you don't like it what your provider has done, complain directly. If they don't respond, decide if you want to remain with them.Harper Beresfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02562670355468136691noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7826531715948368686.post-82881227293510113112008-04-25T17:23:00.000-07:002008-04-25T17:23:00.000-07:00Harper -Since Prokofy has indicated on Twitter tha...Harper -<BR/><BR/>Since Prokofy has indicated on Twitter that he will not comment on your post, I'll do so.<BR/><BR/>You present the standard "platformer" point of view (see the old article on SL politics by Aimee Weber). Platformers holds that LL provides only software and servers, and is otherwise free to set whatever rules they like. The opposing point of view is that of the "interventionists," who hold that second life residents have inalienable rights, and that LL should intervene to protect those rights. Notable interventionists include Gwyneth Llewelyn and Prokofy Neva. Prokofy for instance has long said that LL should establish a sort of Magna Carta as a foundation for SL avatar rights. See also Raph Koster's Declaration of Avatar Rights, which includes the right to virtual property. <BR/><BR/>According to the interventionist point of view, LL has responsibilites to the resident community, including the responsibility to protect in-world property rights. A responsible government would think twice before devaluing all existing in-world property. By this arbitrary and unilateral decision LL once again shows its lack of concern for the resident community.Danton Sidewayshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08592611193635208286noreply@blogger.com